Carl McNeil can truly be described as a fly fishing entrepreneur having worked as a guide and instructor, film maker and fly rod manufacturer. We got the chance to catch up with him and ask him a few questions.
Carl, can you tell us a little about your fly fishing history, have you always fished?
Well, pretty much. Like most Kiwi kids my dad taught me to fish quite young, 6 to 7 I guess. I fished with a cheap glass spinning rod as a kit, yellow, solid glass, bait caster style. I could’t afford a flash trout rod like many of the other kids. A few years later I got interested in fly fishing, my dad had a rod and the whole deal looked far more interesting than chucking spoons at trout. I saved up money from my paper round and bought a second hand Japanese glass rod from an ad’ in the local newspaper. it came with an old Olympic fly reel. I still have that rod, it’s here in the corner of our showroom.
What route led you to becoming a fly casting instructor?
Initially I simply wanted to be a better fly caster. After obtaining my IFFF Casting Instructors Certification I became very interested in the physics of fly casting and went on to complete my Master Fly Casting Certification. I served for a number of years on various IFFF casting and testing committees which was very rewarding.
I seem to remember you were one of the first in NZ, is that right?
I was one of the first CIs in New Zealand and the second (by a couple of days) to obtain masters. One of the first in Australasia actually.
Have you seen a growth in instructors in NZ rather than just guides?
We have a fairly small fly casting fraternity here in New Zealand. A few guides have their CI. We tend to run testing events every couple of years with 4 or 5 candidates sitting their exams.
That must be good for the end users, right?
I believe the best thing you can do to improve your fly fishing is improve your fly casting, and there’s no better way to do that than spend time with a qualified fly casting instructor. Many fly anglers believe they can teach fly casting - I’m yet to see one that actually knows what they are talking about that hasn't achieved a formal qualification. There's a lot of misinformation out there.
I really like your DVD Casts That Catch Fish. It is clear, to the point and applicable to real fishing situations rather than fancy casts that look great on the grass but have no real value on the water. Was that what you wanted to get across?
Cheers - yep that’s pretty much it. We also thought there’s no reason why a fly casting instructional couldn’t be pretty to watch and have high production values. It was important that Casts that Catch Fish would be enjoyable to watch.
Do you think instructors get tied up to too much terminology at times and can miss the point of what they are trying to get across?
Yes, simple is always better. Many instructors over instruct, it’s a human tendency to display all that they know. A good teacher can take a complex topic and distil it down to simple points.
Your DVD, Once in a Blue Moon is a stunning piece of work that tells the story of the mouse hatch that happens every decade or so and how the trout get locked on to them. The DVD is 40 minutes long but how much planning and filming time went into this?
About two years. Telling great stores is all that film making is about - simple is quite complex to achieve.
It is an amazing story. How long was it in the planning?
A lot of time went into research and writing the scripts and shot list. Actual filming is about a third of the job.
Moving on to Itu’s Bones a story about a bone fish gill netter, Itu from the Cook Islands, who embarks on a journey to become a fly fishing guide. You must be proud of this for a number of reasons?
Yep. It was quite an experience, I learnt a great deal. It was very humbling and we were very privileged to get to work on this project with Itu and the various parties that eventually made the project a success. Certainly a highlight. We never thought it would be a particularly successful film. The over arching project around conservation of species, the lagoon, and what Itu has gone on to achieve is quite remarkable.
How did Epic rods come about and why fibre glass?
The abridged version: I wanted to make some smaller high quality fly rods that were tough, but be light and great to cast. Conventional e-glass rods are heavy and cast like limp noodles. As a fly caster I wanted fly rods that were beautiful to look at and beautiful to cast, everything that was being done at the time in carbon fibre was far too stiff. We were fortunate enough to stumble across S glass and then the current S2 glass we are manufacturing on, it was so much lighter and more responsive than standard fibreglass - that pretty much nailed to for us.
Our approach is and will always be to incorporate the very finest materials and components into each fly rod rather than build to a production price as is normally the case. To a large extent this approach has dictated our direct to consumer business model. By engaging direct with our customers we also have the benefit of a direct personal relationship - if we're having any issues with our business we hear very quickly.
Obviously we can only be as good as the people we get to work with and we have a remarkably good team. That started with Trevor Bourne joining us from the UK as our Chief Rod Builder, then his sidekick Dave and of course Hayley who does our QC and dispatch. These people care a great deal about what comes out of our shop and the customers that will fish these rods. Nothing is pre made here, when we start a build the guys in the workshop know the name of the customer and each rod is tracked by the client's name throughout the entire build process. There’s a lot of Trevor in each of these rods and a great deal of love and pride goes into each fly rod - these truly are fly rods with soul.
I love the blank colours available. Was part of the plan to have some “out there” colours?
You must be British? ;-) Well, I don't think our colours are “out there” at all - I just wanted to offer choice, every other manufacture seemed to think that a fly rod should only be green, or only be brown, we changed that.
Has the growth of fibre glass rods over the last few years plateaued or do you see it set to continue?
I think things will settle a bit now, every man and his dog is offering a “glass” rod of some description.
There are two facets in play here. One over arching aspect is the strong renaissance of glass in general, some of it is a trend, some is not. Like any fly rod, regardless of material, there is cheap and there is good. There are a lot of cheap glass rods out there that are not very good at all. Most are very heavy, are finished very poorly, actions are very slow, tip heavy and exhibit terrible tip bounce. We make extremely high quality fly rods, one of the materials we use is a very modern glass fibre, we also make some cutting edge Carbon fibre fly rods. Glass is very warm, tactile and “soulful - but it’s just another material.
Why do you think this is?
Many companies now offering glass are just trying to fill a perceived gap in their product line up. I don't believe they are trying to make seriously good glass fibre rods.
The ready to wrap Epic rod kits are a really cool idea. How is easy is it for the first time rod builder to wrap their own rod?
If you can tie a fly you can build a nice fly rod using our kits. One caveat here - read the instructions.
Are they popular and do you get feedback from the new rod builders?
Our Ready to Wrap Rod kits are an extremely popular product - we get a ton of great feedback and terrific pics from rod builders. It’s great to see - we all get a real kick out of the feedback.
You strike me as the sort of person who will have more plans in the pipeline, would that be right?
Lots of plans, but only so much time in the day. Business-wise and with regard to the Epic brand we’ll stay tightly focused on making exceptional quality gear - that’s been our success recipe so far. Going forward we’ll just be doing more, better.
What are you most proud of?
The Itu’s Bones project - it made a fundamental difference to a lot of peoples lives and to the environment on many levels. Most defiantly mine. It’s not often you actually get the opportunity to make a difference in this life. I’m very grateful this one came along.
30 years from now, what would you like to be remembered for?
I’m not sure. I’d like to do more environmental work and continue to build a company that others can be proud of. It’s very important to us all here that our customers are proud of their gear, that it lasts and that we be honest. I’d be pretty happy with that I reckon.
Is there somewhere you still dream of fishing?
I’ve been fortunate in that I’ve fished most of what I've wanted to fish. I do still dream of the Pacific and need to spend more time there. I live in Southern New Zealand, so am not at all wanting for great places to fish - the thing I look forward to most of all is fishing with my 9 yr old daughter Jessie, I really hope we get to hang out more - need to make time for that.
More from Carl at Swift Fly Fishing