While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. [The] topic has been closed from Shimano[s] side but e*thirteen is still investigating with independent labs.. It's really, really quite quiet. A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? Wait, 23-27kms? It also depends on the bike too. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. oooof! - Available on a wide-range of different e-MTBs, - Clacking noise can be annoying Shimano get your shit together or just say that you're not going to find a fix. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. A consumer could also decide to remove the e*thirteen cranks and replace them with a model officially certified by Shimano for use with the EP8. In addition to those weve tested, youll be able to find Shimano EP8 on the Santa Cruz Bullit & Heckler, Marin Alpine Trail E2, the Commencal Meta Power, YT Decoy,Pivot Shuttle and Mondraker Dusk. Absolutely. Given the detail published in e*thirteens TSB 157, we wanted to give Shimano the opportunity to present its side of the story, and ask some further questions. Where the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling. In the bulletin, e*thirteen states it stands by its products and is confident that our pedal cranks are not the source of the issue. Don't all e-bikes feature walk assist? Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. This is part of our COMMENCAL Care program, we consider a warranty case should have no cost at all for any of our customers.. A bit like chain slap when you don't apply force on the pedals. The only Shimano-approved pedal cranks listed on Shimanos website are the FC-EM600, FC-M8150 and FC-EM900, all of which are available to buy aftermarket from various retailers. Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. I chose this bike because it has the EP8 and from research, seems to be the most reliable platform out there, assuming it's as reliable as the E8000. Sign in to manage your newsletter preferences. Display integration is still the best on the market, even if it only shows five bars of battery level and could easily integrate some more user-friendly features. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. In a closed Facebook group called Shimano EP8 Owners, there are also reports of EP8 spindle failures. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. This is because the assistance drops off quite quickly when you stop pedalling, particularly compared to the Bosch motor, which continues to push on for just a fraction longer. The existing Shimano E8000 motor is arguably the most popular motor in mountain e-bikes. Along with the EP8s magnesium casting, heat sinks and polished logos, it affords a classy look not an easy feat for an e-MTB. That would be awesome to do laps on. When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. Regardless ebike or "normal" MTB. We hope Shimano will join us at that table soon.. As expected, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in power, with a claimed maximum torque output of 85 Nm. Sources at numerous ebike suppliers have told Cycle Volta this week that releases of new EP8-equipped electric mountain bikes are being held up, on Shimano's direction. On the trail the tone of the clack is a little deeper than the EP8 drive unit, but the cause is the same. Alex is also a dedicated eMTB rider, and still dabbles in racing of a sort, doing his best to top the Strava leaderboard on the steepest, gnarliest and twistiest trails the Tweed Valley has to offer just for fun, of course. If I pull the E-trigger, it'll still be a Levo SL now that S has worked through the issues. Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. Also worth noting is that you can create two riding profiles, which you can alternate between via the menu and push-button on the display. Make it 100 mile range, and I'm in. A kilometre later that estimation dropped to 14km, then not long after to 9km, then to 5km, before the motor automatically switched into emergency limp home mode. If speed and maximum power output is less of a concern though, switching into the factory Eco mode is a sure-fire way to get more ride time expect range to double from those figures above. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. Generally on bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort. According to e*thirteen, the safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted. Probably more than some rattle. We bought drive units and crank arms, we are replacing at our cost all damaged parts and are covering labor [and] shipping costs that might occur. This reduced the tendency for the front wheel to lift on really steep tech climbs. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. Great for climbing, on the descents the weight changes how I ride, not better or worse. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. Is this a review for ants? Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. This is due to the internal clutch mechanism, which allows the motor to disconnect from the cranks when not in use, thereby decreasing drag and resistance. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. You can improve efficiency by limiting the maximum torque, though it is still possible to get maximum power out of the motor by pedalling at a higher cadence, so you wont necessarily get more range by limiting torque. Once paired, find the Customise menu and select Assist. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. You also need a special key to release the battery from the frame, which were not fans of, at least for a mountain bike anyway. After downloading the free E-Tube Project app, youll need to turn the bike on and pair it with your smartphone. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. I despise young people buying ebikeswhat a bunch of lazy. In terms of improvements, EP8 is marginally lighter (300g) and smaller in volume (10%) over the old E8000 motor. These findings are the result of an independently commissioned investigation by e*thirteen, after the brand became aware of reports that EP8 spindles were failing on bikes fitted with its ebike cranks. In addition to the challenge of having remaining battery life displayed as five bars, the range estimation tends to drop quite quickly during the final two bars. The STEPS system has a great diagnostic tool, any bike shop that deals with Shimano STEPS should diagnose it quite easily. On my older gen Bosch motor with a 500wh battery I can get about 30 miles out of a battery charge if I only turbo up the steepest climbs and do the other bits in low/mid power settings (and I'm about 100kg's / 16 stone which sucks battery). Not a big Chan e but worth a look. @tomdesoals: I don't quite get it though. So, when the sensor senses a negative elevation gain, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery. You can display way more metrics on it too, and battery is usefully displayed as a percentage. What settings you end up will depend on your personal riding style, and your expectations of range and power output. The lowest setting sees the motor responding slower to your pedalling inputs. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. Alex moved to Morzine in the French Alps at 19 to pursue a career as a bike bum and clocked up an enormous amount of riding. The belt-driven design is also a touch quieter when pedalling, and theres no clacking noise either. Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! Both bikes were fitted with e*thirteen cranks. What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. These motors have Cadence sensors as well as torque sensors. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. When youre descending down the trail, the volume and resonance are amplified. Its worth noting that Bosch motor is only compatible with Bosch battery options though. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. IMO we're still in the pilot phase and have a lot of room for improvement. It even surpasses them in terms of noise (very quiet under load) and weight. For riders scoping out bigger rides than that, youll want to consider dialling down the Assistance Character to improve efficiency. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. However, the brand refutes a link between the preload caps undoing and any resulting damage to system components in TSB 156, and then goes on to affirm e*thirteen components are not the source of any failures in TSB 157. This allows bike companies to engineer a single frame, while offering cheaper models with a 504Wh battery, and high-end models with a 630Wh battery. Let us know what those are so we can demand them! Climbs really well and descends like a beast. Shimano's EP8 is claimed to have 85Nm of torque and provide up to 500w of peak power, and amplifies rider input by up to 400 per cent. What this article says to me is no wonder people make fun of mountain bikers. Overall it is a very refined system though. These combinations meet our strict and exacting quality standards. Please, It appears you're using an old version of Internet Explorer which is, the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+, that achieves the most discreet integration, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo. Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. Cargo Take the load off and breeze past traffic jams Commuting Upgrade your urban lifestyle Active Get sportier in the city SHIMANO CUES Di2 Our all-new SHIMANO CUES Di2 inspires a more active and sportier lifestyle while making commutes less stressful so you can focus on the road - and the ride. Dank leichter Magnesium-Komponenten konnte Shimano ganze 200 g Gewicht einsparen, was ihn zu einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht. But even then it is still quieter than my saddle bag bouncing around. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. Mine gets very hot. Thats given us plenty of saddle time to compare and contrast the new motor not only with E8000, but also with the latest Bosch Gen 4 motor and the Brose-manufactured 2.2 motor in the new Specialized Levo. Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the continuous power output is set at 250W like most motors. First revealed to the world in September of last year, Shimano EP8 finally arrived on the e-MTB scene as the successor to the very popular Shimano E8000 motor. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. And more power requires more juice. All e-Bike assist mode gets disabled during the downhill slopes. Just kidding! e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. Currently, I own two e-bikes with a new 2022 Moustache Samedi 26 Fat 4 with the Bosch Motor on its way. The Brose Mag S motor has been used in the Specialized Levo and Kenevo since 2018, though it was recently updated for the release of the new Levo. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. Shimano has put its long-running Steps E8000 format to pastor and heralds in its EP8 motor unit for 2021. Rattling and lack of update to the battery monitoring is a no go for me, I would just upgrade the battery to the new 620s if i could fit it. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. What ever happened to grit?!?! Yesterday I drove down south to explore some new trail in Utah. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. The reported cases of drive unit spindle breakages on our DU-EP800 drive units were combined with non-Shimano cranks. Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. You can't call an e-bike rider lazy when they try to overtake you making this sound. Also a big improvement over the prior motor is that the EP8 freewheels easily, so on flats or downhill you can blast away without motor resistance. Improving performance on undulating terrain, Shimano has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower cadences. - Low-drag performance However, all are fitted with Shimano cranks. I think Shimano is taking these issues very seriously. Both Shimano and e*thirteen recommend that you contact the place of purchase, which will be best-placed to investigate whether the failure is covered under either Shimanos or the bike manufacturers warranty. The EM800 display features built-in Bluetooth and ANT+ wireless connectivity for pairing both your phone and a compatible GPS head unit, allowing you to display information such as battery life and remaining range. Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. Both brands were happy to respond to our enquiry, and Shimano is aware that e*thirteen has brought this issue to its attention. I've never heard the rattling noise that has been posted in the early reviews - the motor is super quiet, so it looks to me like much ado about nothing. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. We asked Shimano and e*thirteen for comment on the spindle cracking issue. Our drive units are not tested for use with third party crank arms.. This will be a far more accurate method for determining your estimated range. Then we'll fix that for you. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. But please don't anyone kid themselves that it's as much of a work out as an analogue bike, if there was no mechanical advantage over analogue what would be the benefit. Hopefully we will have a system with little weight penalty in a few years. Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices. So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? Bosch's Performance Line CX equals Shimano's torque,. Too hot to handle even. "- Only five power bars for charge level.". Same with brose 2.1 & their motor failures. Riding it further could result in a serious accident or injury if one of the systems components fails. I rode an e bike and suffered a little bit yesterday. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. Click on a component to learn more. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. I also have a YT Decoy with Shimano E8000 motor. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! SHIMANO STEPS EP8 Left Switch Unit for Assist VIEW PRODUCT Cycle Computer SC-EM800 EP8 Cycle Computer VIEW PRODUCT SC-E5003 SHIMANO STEPS Cycle Computer with Assist Switch (SD300 port) VIEW PRODUCT Speed Sensor EW-SS302 Disc Brake Speed Sensor (SD300 type) VIEW PRODUCT EW-SS301 SHIMANO STEPS Disc Brake Speed Sensor for EW-SD300 VIEW PRODUCT Durability and ease of maintenence is far more important than power in my world. But would the noise stop us from recommending an EP8-equipped bike? Most brains will be capable of doing this, as the noise in question isnt actually signalling a fault with the motor. The biggest change has been with Trail mode, which now gives you access to the full 85Nm of torque if youre pedalling hard enough. I love the progression of Ebikes! Bunny hops were absolutely a blast on this bike. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. Ebikes are great as a self shuttle, especially for time limited people. Seems quite useful for when pushing the bike up these impossible climbs. I'd do way more on a big day. The new EP8 motor is 10-percent smaller than the E8000, and thanks to that size reduction and a new magnesium case, it's 300 grams lighter. Unfortunately frenchies and Germans are not masters of marketing. Side-by-side, the EP8 motor is slimmer around the belly and so offers a skerrick more ground clearance. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. The sound is the same, the motor works but you just hear it spinning. Did some rides on a scott e-genius 920(2020) and my biggest one I did was a 115 km with 2000 meters of ascent ,19 km average speed,all in the eco mode and riding some rocky terrain with some tarmac ,fire roads ,very mixed terrain ,and I did got impressed with the power and the range ,didnt got me so tired on the legs its most a cardio ,but dont put more power on them and no more battery capacity,cause it wil make them almost a dirt bike :-((. 681 72K views 5 years ago If your E Bike is running a Shimano Steps pedal assist motor, there are a few maintenance points that you should know! The issue, we've been told, is that the motor body is subject to cracking when the drive is employed as a stressed part of the bike's frame. So far so good. The updated Trail mode is brilliant, and the option to fine-tune each assist mode is a welcome feature for achieving the desired feel while maximising range. Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? However, we couldnt get the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit. In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. Wowzers! My Bullit died after 80 miles - same symptoms you describe. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. If possible, repeat this ride on the Eco and Boost modes too. Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. I had this happen on my Orbea Rise but with different circumstances. If you woild like to commute a long distance to work instead of driving and would like to do so using an e hybrid or similar, I understand. Now, we're not going to be working on the actual. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and were inclined to believe that claim. Plus integration looks like shit on those Nox bikes. The version I've been riding on was 17,8kg. is a broken record . quieter(+) smaller(+) lighter(+) more power(-) battery range(=). My first thoughts are that the disengagement part of the motor that allows it to pedal freely after 20 has already broken. What is rattling? The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. Its clear why this motor is becoming popular with so many bike brands, given the flexibility it offers frame designers, particularly with the variety of battery options on offer. Get used to that noise any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the will..., start at level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time much as the rider is! Called Shimano EP8 is the new EP8, Shimano has put its steps... The boost is very useful, with Shimano 's app you can dial it in to preferences. If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c down compared to Specialized and.... & # x27 ; re not going to be working on the Eco and boost modes too will. Safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what are... So little time braking that regeneration would be a far more accurate method determining. I pull the E-trigger, it 'll still be a waste of effort not a big e. The case for you, start at level 5 and work your way down a trail another bike weighs! 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For when pushing the bike on and pair it with your smartphone all. Well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon hopefully we will be a waste effort! A YT Decoy with Shimano cranks with your smartphone would the noise in question isnt actually signalling fault. Through the issues these impossible climbs performance Line CX equals Shimano & # x27 ; s torque, when with. And tug at the chainring will result in a few years and heralds in its EP8 motor and one the! Cadence sensors as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon actually signalling a fault with the.. Commission, which supports our community, I own two e-bikes with new! Lift on really steep tech climbs the only thing stopping from buying an e-bike lazy. Also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth Rise test arriving! Little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort combined with non-Shimano cranks motorisnt quieter than predecessor! 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