RL-19, H4350, and IMR 4350 are all good choices. 6.5 PRC or .28 Nosler. Qty: Add to cart . This calls for a light rifle. ADG 300 Norma Magnum Brass. If we're talking optimizing performance, a 26" barrel is not optimum for either cartridge - you should instead be looking at 30" - 32" barrels. Rich is a good guy to talk to on the phone we bsd a bit the other day. ADG 300 . Clearly Hornady wasnt trying to break any speed records with the 7 PRC. Just have the barrel throated so you can load those big pills way out there, to make room for more powder. bullet have what it takes for hunting anything short of dangerous game. The 7mm PRC in center is the same overall length as the 7mm Rem Mag and achieves the same muzzle velocities, but does so in a fatter case with no belt. Because the 7mm RM is a familiar benchmark, lets establish some basic performance numbers in an 8 pound rifle with 24-inch barrel spitting a representative spire point, boat tail, 175-grain hunting bullet, B.C. Pros, cons of both and reasons why. My hunting partner just bought a CA Ridgeline TI in 6.5PRC. Been looking for a while. Nosler Unprimed Brass 204 Ruger $ 53.82 - $ 208.59 Select options Nosler Unprimed Brass 220 Swift (50) $ 84.99 Add to cart Nosler Unprimed Brass 222 Rem (100) $ 111.28 Add to cart Nosler Unprimed Brass 222 Rem Magnum (250) Unprocessed Rated 5.00 out of 5 $ 215.54 Add to cart Nosler Unprimed Brass 223 Rem $ 50.18 - $ 206.83 Select options I love 7mm, just wish it would modernize a bit. At SAAMI specs you really hinder the performance, need a little extra freebore to seat the bullets out further. Ron Spomer The 7mm advantage comes from relatively high BC (ballistic coefficient) bullets in popular weights commonly used for hunting horned and antlered game. Trustpilot. And heres a top load for the 175-gr. Smaller-framed or young shooters generally consider the cartridge as having high recoil, but its recoil is manageable for experienced large-framed shooters to be able to shoot it regularly. bullets, but not the longest and certainly not such long numbers as Hornadys 180-gr. Trustpilot. Both are great rounds. Mag. Published Nov 25, 2019 7:53 PM EST. $81.95. The first question you have to ask when designing a new cartridge is, "WHY?" The 7LRM (Long Range Magnum) is a non-belted case that has the same overall length as the 7mm Rem Mag with a standard magnum case head. Regardless what rifle cartridges were initially designed for, they can be perfect for other applications, which suggests the 7mm PRC could be your next do-all big game hunting cartridge. Many find them, like the 280ai, to be a great compromise between ballistics and recoil. 7mm Rem. In shorter barrels, performance declines dramatically. I like the 6.5 PRC because I think ammo/brass will have more staying power where the 7mm SAUM is all but obsolete (don't stone me for that). ammo. I tested the 7 STW, 7 RUM, 7 Rem mag, 7-300 win mag and even a 7 Lapua. Sign up with your email address to receive news and updates. You might think Remington started the 7mm cartridge trend in 1962 with its famous 7mm Remington Magnum, but by then the 7mm Mauser was already well known. And that means more powder. 7mm SAUM vs 7mm Rem Mag | Full Comparison 24,889 views Sep 12, 2020 306 Dislike Share Save GunFather Precision 6.7K subscribers To answer a question I regularly get asked here is a full. In older reloading books for the 7 rum is its hauling a$$ compared current data. I also see the counter that belted cases are reloaded just like non belted and it is a non issue. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The 7mm advantage comes from relatively high BC (ballistic coefficient) bullets in popular weights commonly used for hunting horned and antlered game. Remington claims that the ballistics of the 7mm SAUM equal those of the popular 7mm Rem. I'm going 7-300prc because it'll out pace a 7mag by 100-150fps with all bullet weights at much more manage pressures. Nosler shortened the RUM case, gave it a 35-degree shoulder, and shortened the neck to .276. By 1,000 yards the PRC has nearly a 2-foot drop advantage and 14-inch windage advantage. JavaScript is disabled. SAUM shows that 56.0 grains of IMR 4350 powder will drive their 140 grain bullets to a MV of 2943 fps, and 60.0 grains of IMR 4350 is good for a MV of 3146 fps. Thats fast enough to handle most 175-gr. 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life. Im in the market to start a new build. This will be a custom built hunting rifle(deer and elk) and will need to be carried long distances. 92 grs. The parent cartridge is a shortened 7mm Remington Ultra Mag. $120.95. I think the 7saum is here to stay. https://westtexordnance.com/7mm-300-norma-improved/, https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/28-nosler-195-berger-re33-testing.159270/, Desert Tech SRS A2 Covert FDE w/ conversions, Desert Tech SRS A1 FDE RH 6.5x47L - Parted Out. If your just hunting without extended range sessions I'g use this over the 7rem mag. 7mm RM, 2,900 fps from 24 bl. Cartridge: 7 RUM. My conclusion: if you already own any 7mm magnum for hunting, (7mm WSM, 7mm SAUM, 7mm RM, 7mm LRM, 7mm STW, 7mm Wby. Nosler and Hornady load both 7mm Remington Magnum and .280 Ackley ammunition; looking at their data you'll see a difference of 90 to 100 fps between the two, with the belted 7mm Magnum giving the higher velocities (with a 162-grain Hornady ELD-X, the 7mm Mag. M700 shooting 180-gr. Less well known in the U.S. (but more ballistically advanced) was the 7mm Weatherby Magnum from the early 1940s. FWIW, the LRM setup that I have on the way was ordered with 16x-class projectiles in mind. Barrel life is always a concern with maximum velocity, so-called overbore cartridges. They are all throwing the same bullets more than hard and fast enough for anything. 7mm mag has stood the test of time. High-velocity cartridges are high velocity for a reason. If you were to blow the taper out to .010" and add-in a 40-degree shoulder, you would only gain 1.9 grains of case capacity. 7mm Rem. A major part of that depends on rifling twist. Creedmoor Sports $ 116.95 . Following since I want to do the exact same thing. I didnt have any problems finding reloading supplies. The best part is that the recoil is super easy compared to a 300. Despite all this powder volume, reloading guides all indicate the 7mm RUM tops out at around 3,150 fps with a 26-inch barrel, slightly slower than the .28 Nosler. Not to concerned about the barrel life, you cant expect Ferrari performance and get Prius fuel mileage haha theres always a trade off, I think a mild load in a 28 might be the best of both worlds. ADG 6.5 SAUM Brass. And heres the same 175-gr. include more options in rifles and ammo, more accessible and less expensive ammo, less recoil, a potentially shorter, handier, lighter rifle, and longer barrel life. factory 7mm Rem. When in doubt, pull the 338 out! Copyright 2004, 2013 by Chuck Hawks. I suspect the Sherman cases are all running between 70-80k psi on the upper end. I have hunted with a 7mm Rem Mag and a 7mmSTW. The belt has never been an issue for me. Sign up with your email address to receive news and updates. That was the 7x57mm re-branded for the non-metric British Rigby rifle. 8tw 195 or maybe the new 190 atips. It is going to be strictly a hunting gun on a lighter weight platform. Mag. 22 Nosler. Metallic Reloading Rifle Brass Rifle Brass Rifle brass is made for almost every conceivable cartridge, from 223 brass and 308 brass to older offerings like 30-40 Krag brass and even one of the newest, 6.5 Creedmoor brass. . All rights reserved. 7mm brass is simple to find and the caliber is an absolute hammer on deer/elk. Im shooting a 7 stw 1 in 8 twist ( ballistic twin to 28 nosler ) 190's at 3005 fps, and the 195's at 2985 fps both with under .5 moa accuracy. My Saum is on a med length action and was a full tilt everything I wanted build. Factory ammo all over, good brass fron Nosler, ADG, etc. Retumbo. Absolutely nothing special or difficult about reloading belted cases. RDF, or Bergers 190-gr. JavaScript is disabled. If you want a shorter barrel, look into the 7 SAUM, 7 RM and even the 7-08 , they'll all get it done nicely. I'm worried bout the need of a 26" barrel for the Nosler, and hoping to get away with a 24" since I'm trying to run an Ultra 7 with it. load hitting 2,970 fps and a 28 Nosler hitting 3211fps with the same bullet. Instead, the Hornady-developed RCM case was used to produce the 6.5 PRC. LRHTB. 7 saum 7 rem mag 7 ultra mag 28 nosler The 284 and 280 appeal to me for lower cost (components and barrel life), but they are the slowest. $ 87.00 - $ 145.00. We use cookies to make your experience better. This rings home with me. SAUM can be found on the Rifle Cartridge Page. Newer calibers tend to fade quickly these days. Like I said, I'm biased for the 7RM. Wyoming NR Special increase headed for the Gov's signature, Nutrition/Running/Strength Training/Other Workouts, FORLOH AllClima Softshell and AllClima Stretch Woven Pant Review. I'm currently hunting with a 7rm shooting 168 Berger vlds at 3000 fps. Fill this with 88 grains of slow burning Reloder 33 powder and, according to the Nosler Reloading Guide 8, you should get 3,211 fps from a 26-inch barrel. Crap I don't remember, I'd have to pull a bullet, I've ran H1000, Retumbo and lots of R33, that load was H1000 but I only have the speed in AB. ( They are sitting on the shelf waiting , though.) I have both the 300 and 7mm SAUM, the 300 is on a model 7 action and the 7mm a standard 700SA. Thoughts on a 22 or 23 Barrel in 7mm Rem Mag? IMR 4350 was the most accurate powder tested. According to SAAMI specs, instrumental velocity of the 7mm PRC is 2,950 fps when driving a 180-grain bullet. Subscribe to OL+ for our best feature stories and photography. Retained mass helps maintain momentum. For reasons that I can't explain (though perhaps have something to do with me eating paint chips as a kid), I have an obsession with 3k FPS muzzle velocity. #1 Postby Marty Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:38 am. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. We ain't raisen no yuppy girls! Mag., the 264 Win. With a 160 grain bullet the Winchester figures are 2990 fps and 3176 ft. lbs. Running 8twist Proof 168s run flat, 5.2mils the other morning at 912y. The .28 Nosler and 7mm RUM push the same bulletsjust faster. He is having adg make brass for him, its head stamped and the neck diameter and length are correct for his design, will still need to be fire formed. Instead they seem to be shooting for the ideal balance among MV, tolerable recoil, wind deflection, and precision accuracy. Mag. I'd opt for the 7RM. make ideal whitetail and mule deer takers with 140-to 160-grain bullets. Just picked up a tikka for a donor build for a lightweight 6.5 PRC or 7mm SAUM. The difference might surprise you. If youre going to tackle an elk or mule deer with a 180-grain bullet at around 2,900 fps, the 7mm version in that bullet weight will shoot flatter, drift less, and put more energy on target than the .308 version. 28 Nosler offers excellent performance but brass is spendy and availability is hit or miss . Great extraction and wide nodes with many powders. One of the most prominent differences between the two is that the 28 Nosler fires a bullet diameter of 7mm or 0.284" while the 300 PRC fires the . Short, light barrels just dont do justice to high temperature, high velocity, high pressure, overbore magnum cartridges. Thanks. Mine has a 30 Rock Creek. Since this rifle will be used sparingly maybe I can afford to go with something a little harder on the barrel. Its designed to send long, sleek, high B.C. Howdy. As mentioned above, one of the nice things about the 7RM is factory ammo is plentiful and fairly inexpensive. With a 160 grain bullet the Remington figures are 2960 fps and 3112 ft. lbs. Part of this is due to the .40 inches of freeborn Remington builds into its 7mm RUMs to minimize chamber pressures on ignition. It's no surprise then that the 7mm Weatherby held the title "World's Fastest 7mm" until the 28 Nosler appeared. The .28 Nosler of 2015 was their solution. Any opinions, thoughts, or experiences with either? Going to be used from antelope to elk. (Aim for center and bullet will not rise more than 5 inches nor fall more than 5 inches within the MPBR. Hornadys 7mm PRC with its high B.C. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. The 7mm Weatherby has the same recoil as a .300 Winchester Magnum, and many shooters can't come to grips with it. Diver160651 Who cares. We're doing break in on it tomorrow. The store will not work correctly in the case when cookies are disabled. As you might guess, there isnt much trajectory/performance difference between the RUM and the Nosler. Links to technical data and drawings for the newly SAAMI accepted Cartridge and Chamber designs not yet included in SAAMI Standards are listed below. If you go with a hot 7mm, get one with a fairly heavy barrel contour. ADG 28 Nosler. The 180's will work with a 9 nit the bigger bullets will have a decided edge in the wind. Although, the 28 Nosler is an awesome cartridge. That's what I would do unless you have to have something much faster. I have a 7 LRM in a DTA, I've been pretty happy with it. I set my dies to headspace off the shoulder and forget about the belt. Nosler told me their bonded bullet is designed to retain 70%, same as the partition. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. 7mm PRC vs 28 Nosler The 28 Nosler shoots at faster muzzle velocities, but is an overbore cartridge that requires a very long chamber, with the Hornady hype behind the 7mm PRC, brass and ammo should be much more readily available soon enough. Should be 7.5lbs scoped or so. Mag. Arbeidstid: 08.00-16.00mandag til fredagVi vil svare deg innen 48-72 timer. The 7 PRC should be built on 1:8 or 1:7.5 twist barrels to stabilize all these. You go long. I have a 6.5 saum that is my go to long range coues rifle and it is my favorite rifle but not my first choice for an elk cartridge. To comply with the new e-Privacy directive, we need to ask for your consent to set the cookies. 28 nosler is a great case, barrel burner, but if you're looking for say 3000fps w/ 195 at lower pressure, use H1000 or Retumbo, adg/gunwerks brass, and the brass will last you forever, take care the barrel and it may go 1000 rounds. Its likely to be as popular in the 21st century as the Rem Mag was in the 20th. First, thanks to OP for starting this Thread and to everyone for posting. He's loading the 195's to something like 3.730" COAL, well past SAAMI specs. 7mm RemMag. Mag., 7mm RUM, 28 Nosler,) you dont need a 7 PRC. I would also add that if you are not going to optimize the rifle to get the most out of the 28 Nosler just stick with the tried and true 7mm Rem mag. One of the draws to the 7 SAUM is the availability of high-quality brass through companies like Norma and ADG. This compromise should account for the slower muzzle velocities many rifles produce with factory loads and safe handloads. Everyone who knows what they're doing headspaces off of the shoulder anyways, and you should not be doing load development with virgin cases, you want to fire form them first so the belt is a moot point. The Nosler Reloading Guide 9 lists a 175-gr. Muzzle energy means the energy of the bullet at the time of leaving the gun. ADG 300 Rem Ultra Mag Brass. Some are claiming as little as 600-round barrel life for RUM, 1,000 rounds for .28 Nosler, 2,000 for Rem. We have killed over a half dozen deer over 850 yards with the 195 berger so i know it performs well on game (never lost a deer with the 195 even with one having poor shot placement). This friction-free bullet jump allows it to break inertia more easily. Bonus benefits with the 7mm Rem. Buy Now. Medium slow burning rifle powders are most appropriate for both of these cartridges. First, notice that kinetic energy remains above the elk killing minimum of 1,500 ft-lbs at 700 yards. at the muzzle. The maximum load for that bullet is 61.5 grains of H4350 powder, which yields a MV of 3133 fps at a chamber pressure of 61,900 psi. landed with a splash big enough to drench every deer/elk cartridge in North America. Specifically, the larger diameter .284 bullets used by those 7mm cartridges have about 5% more frontal surface area (also known as cross sectional area) than the .277 bullets used by the 6.8 Western (.0633 vs .0603 square inches). Interesting. I go back and forth in my head 1000 times on choices, then I will decide on what I know that I want, then I'll see something else and go back to the drawing board. The 7mm PRC in center is the same overall length as the 7mm Rem Mag and achieves the same muzzle velocities, but does so in a fatter case with no belt. Reactions: Zeroit. for my brand of hunting. To get this Hornady went to its usual bag of tricks: The new, updated Remington M700 standard length action rifles handled the Hornady 7mm PRC 180-gr. Neither caught on, but American shooters were certainly beginning to recognize the potential for 7mm cartridges. ADG 30 Nosler Brass. Trustpilot. If its a hunting rifle does it really matter? Will be running as a long action so no worries about magazine issues. I can't tell you how many cartridge choices I've settled on, only to change my mind again and again. Will the 156 take down an elk, sure but I would prefer to have a .284 caliber in a biased opinion. needed another shot behind the head to kill it. load hitting 2,970 fps and a 28 Nosler hitting 3211fps with the same bullet. You obviously reload so that may not be an issue. Fr pske salg: Opptil 50 % rabatt + Gratis frakt over 499 kr Overall cartridge length of the 7mm RUM is 3.6 inches, right there with a .375 H&H Magnum. Full Member. Winchester claims a muzzle velocity (MV) of 3,225 fps with a 140 grain bullet for their 7mm WSM cartridge; the claimed muzzle energy (ME) is 3,233 ft. lbs. The 28N is very similar to the 7 STW. This just-released (October 26, 2022) cartridge has the potential to become the 7mm Remington Magnum of the 21st century. $89.95. Categories And thats part of the reason 7mms are so popular. and exactly the same claim is made for the 7mm WSM. The extra heat required to reach hyper speed eats away at barrel throats rather quickly. Minuteman. Reloder 33, 7mm RUM 3,150 fps from 26 bl. The load is easy on brass and accuracy is excellent, Nosler Custom Reloading Brass 280 Remington Ackley Improved 40-Degree, Nosler Custom Reloading Brass 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Mag Box. With RL26 I stuck a case in the chamber @ 3150fps. 7 saum and 7 rem mag seem like good compromises. So far on order, The Sherman requires case prep and fire forming which is rounds off of your barrel life unless you buy a hydroforming die $$$$$, Caliber = internal diameter of a barrel bore, outside diameter of a bullet. Those are some impressive numbers. Hey guys, so Ive kind of decided to give one of these a try in my Desert Tech SRS. Mag. Creedmoor Sports $ 120.95 . Another vote for 7 rem mag. And at sensible hunting distances even a basic MPBR hunter should have find more than 90 percent of his shooting opportunities covered by the Rem Mag. My 28 will not blow the door of the 7 MAX which is why I did not rechamber a 28, I want more accurate load life and no chasing lands around for only a little gain on the very end of trajectory. You say it's long action. For you guys that have had both with do you prefer. Remington claims a MV of 3175 fps and ME of 3133 ft. lbs. . Engineers made three modifications that ensured popularity: they shortened the case to fit standard-length actions. Im going to run the 7 Saum Im thinking. First, the 7mm Rem Mag and 28 Nosler use larger diameter bullets than the 6.8 Western. Ryan Pierce is a gunsmith, Piercison Rifles, and he is the first person I saw that was playing with the extra freebore. Lots of hiking, backpacking, climbing, shooting to 450 yards, maybe 500 yards. The structure of the material reveals the hardness. They explain in part the enduring popularity of the 7mm Rem. Its a criterion 26 barrel. Alabusa Learning. I'm not too familiar with the 7LRM, but I'm having a 28 Nosler built for hunting. Well, i was leaning towards the 28 Nosler, but now I'm seriously considering the 7mm RM. Recoil with a brake should be not bad at all even with the light rifle. Of course, this was an overreaction, but at the time millions were convinced the new 7mm was the do-all-end-all of deer/elk/moose and even bear hunting cartridges. But if you suspect a 26-inch barrel might be a bit unwieldy, waitll you haul around a 28-inch. Mag. Almost through fire forming but ran some pressure ladders with fully formed brass with 180 Berger hybrids, H1000 looks like I'll be at a good max at 3000 fps and R26 3050 fps and I good life. Nosler Custom Reloading Brass 280 Remington Ackley Improved 40-Degree Nosler Custom Reloading Brass 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Mag Box N N2TRKYS Well-Known Member Joined Furthest down, around the primer pocket, the brass should be firm. Handloaders can take advantage of all these, but most commercial ammunition features 120-grain to 178-grain bullets. Just $1 per month , The old 7mm Rem. Nonetheless, it's nice to have options Having so many options these days is a double edged sword. I've mostly shot 180 Berger's and its been really accurate. You are using an out of date browser. Trustpilot. Most people are getting sub half moa. It's an extraordinary caliber that has proven itself for decades upon decades, and just in the last few years has hit new strides thanks to the SAAMI standardization of the caliber, because of it's time-tested popularity. I made the same decision not long ago and went 7mm RM, although barrel life was a consideration for me, which it probably wouldn't be on a strictly hunting rig. I was tired of lugging the heavy, long, and heavy recoiling 30s around, but wanted more punch than my lighter 6.5CM. I have a variety of options on this, as I am planning to do this on a DTA, for which I have both .535 and .585 bolts, and the DTA mags are pretty generous in regard to OAL. JavaScript is disabled. Assuming that would be as illogical as assuming the 30-06 Springfield, 308 Winchester, and 223 Remington are strictly military cartridges. Buy Now. Given the same basic form and muzzle velocity (MV), a 180-grain, .284 bullet will fly flatter, drift less, and retain more energy downrange than a 180-grain .308 bullet . #7mm #longrangeshooting #extremelongrange I wanted an every day backpacking Coues rifle that could do sheep, bears, caribou, goats and the occasional backpacking elk hunt if needed. 224 Valkyrie. Kind of soured me on light bullet's. without laser assistance. and instead recommends the 30-28 nosler, 300 norma and improved, and 300 PRC stating that each has 75% less throat erosion than the 28 nosler and with essentially identical ballistics. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Another indicates 74-grains of Hodgdon 870 will churn up 2,954 fps. The 280AI is a great cartridge, as is the plain old 280 Remington. Case has a good balance of capacity for the bullets I tested (180'd and 195's) Plenty of usable powder options. The .28 Nosler and 7mm RUM push the same bulletsjust faster. The 28 Nosler is also loaded to a slightly higher pressure than the 300 Win Mag (65,000psi vs 64,000psi). JavaScript is disabled. This is probably too high for real world hunting, but well use it as a standard here for cartridge-to-cartridge comparison consistency.). Buy Now. Mag. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. I agree mud, but where does the 284 shehane fall compared to the above cartridges? Recoil of a 9# Rem. But, were I young and tough and starting from scratch, I might be lured into the .28 Nosler. You must log in or register to reply here. But with laser rangefinders one can easily compensate for the slightly greater drop of the 7mm Rem. Here, the hardness is nearly twice that of around the neck. 12 Gauge 1". The 7 SAUM offers better performance than the 300 Win Mag in a package that is almost as small as the 6.5 Creedmoor. 28 Nosler offers excellent performance but brass is spendy and availability is hit or miss . Genesis 1:1 NRA Benefactor Life, SAF, RMEF, Memberships "Want to stop drunk drivers from killing sober drivers? If barrel quality is equally consistent, run-of-the-mill accuracy should exceed that of most rifles chambered for older 7mm cartridges. Nosler really hampered the performance of that round with the 3.340" COAL length.